Elyse Marcellino: Microschools on the Move in the Magnolia State

Join us as we explore the transformative world of education with Elyse Marcellino, the director of Embark: New Schools for Mississippi.. Listen in as Elyse shares her work guiding ambitious individuals through the process of opening charter schools and microschools in Mississippi. She reveals how the challenges of COVID-19 acted as a catalyst for Embark's creation and highlights the importance of application support in tackling the high rejection rate of charter school proposals. We also unpack the emergence of microschools, a flexible and innovative educational model that has gained traction during the pandemic, and how these unique learning environments differ from traditional schooling.

In our discussion, we shine a light on the increasing role of African-American mothers in founding microschools, inspired by a need for more suitable education options for their children and communities. The conversation pivots to the broader topic of school choice in Mississippi, underscoring the shift towards empowering parents to take the lead in their children's education. Elyse emphasizes how Embark serves as a beacon of support, offering guidance, resources, and financial assistance to those who dream of starting their own school. If you're intrigued by the future of education and the growing diversity in learning environments, this episode is an optimistic look at the educational landscape evolving in Mississippi, thanks to the passionate individuals driving change.

Transcript 

Grant Callen: Welcome to the Empower Podcast, the show where we talk about Mississippi's big challenges and big opportunities. Each episode, we'll talk with lawmakers, policy experts, and community leaders about how we can break down barriers together to create a Mississippi where everyone can rise.

Welcome back to the Empower Podcast. I'm your host, Grant Callen. I'm excited about the show today. Today, my guest is Elyse Marcellino, who is director of Embark. Embark is an initiative of Empower Mississippi, and it is a new schools accelerator, that works with school founders to help them move from idea to doors open. I'm looking forward to hearing all about it. Elyse received her bachelor's degree from Belhaven University. She has a master's in education policy from Harvard University. It's no bell haven, but it's a good school too. She spent a season on Capitol Hill working for Senator Thad Cochran, and helped to launch a Charter School in Atlanta where she served as a classroom teacher. And previously, Elyse directed education policy work at Empower Mississippi before launching Embark. Elyse, welcome to the show.

Elyse Marcellino: Thanks for having me.

Grant Callen: Let's jump right in. Tell us about Embark.

Elyse Marcellino: Sure, Embark is a new schools accelerator. It's an initiative of Empower Mississippi, and we are very focused on finding, guiding and investing in new school founders in Mississippi. We have chosen to work with a Charter School founders and Micro School Founders. These are both areas in the state where we see a lot of growth potential. We started a little over a year and a half ago, maybe closer to two and we've been growing quite a bit since then just building capacity, building out resources, starting and leaning into new events and have grown our networks of various prospective founders from around the state or people who are interested in coming back into Mississippi and often with a connection to the state and so we're excited about where we stand now at this point in Embarks work.

Grant Callen: And how did you get here? What prompted the creation of this effort?

Elyse Marcellino: Really during COVID like so many people. As you remember, we at Empower started thinking about the supply side and how to address it, coming out of all of the disruption that occurred during the pandemic and lockdowns, and as we saw across the country and in Mississippi real shifts in enrollment from traditional settings to nontraditional settings or schools of choice. As we saw that we wanted to begin addressing that supply side, we knew the demand in Mississippi was there for more and better education options and so we said, there really should be an organization focused on supporting new school founders in the Charter School space, we saw that for our Charter School sector, it had not really grown. Our charter law has been in place for 10 years and we just saw our 10th Charter School open. We also saw that the application rejection rate was around 80%, which was pretty astounding and so, we believed that 1 area where we could make that number go down significantly was with a serious application support. So coming alongside those Charter School Founders and helping them navigate what can be a very lengthy and rigorous process to apply to open a Charter School. And then we also saw the significant interest across the nation, and we believed that would be reflected in Mississippi in unconventional learning environments, small, flexible environments, such as micro schools and learning pods that were becoming more popular, receiving a lot more attention just after COVID. And so, we wanted to explore that and that's been an area where we have seen significant interest across the state while Charter Schools are regulated where they can open or regulated by state law that says they can only open in D or F rated districts and that number fluctuates quite a bit for micro schools, they tend to be private settings or learning centers serving homeschool students in Mississippi that we have very unregulated sectors for both of those. And so it's a freer environment for education entrepreneurs to come into the runway is shorter to start micro schools and so we wanted to explore that after seeing that homeschool enrollment has risen significantly in the state, and we thought that probably meant that there were people out there bending together with other families, there might be teachers starting small settings to serve students. And we wanted to see whether that interest existed in Mississippi as well and it certainly does. We've seen over the past couple of years so, that was really the impetus or Embark, and we just continue to grow from there.

Grant Callen: So you work with both Charter School Founders, people that are wanting to start a Charter School in Mississippi and Micro School Founders. You've touched on this a little bit, but because the concept is pretty new Micro Schooling, what is a micro school exactly and how do you differentiate it from homeschooling or a private school?

Elyse Marcellino: Yeah, so this is a question we get a lot, it's not always a straightforward answer and you might get a different answer depending on where you asked it around the nation. But how we define micro school is that they're small, flexible, educational settings typically. They are closer to 10 to 15 students, but they can go up to 100 or even 150 students, depending on the setting and the way that it's structured. These settings are known for their flexibility in the sense that they can. There are a lot of variable costs that they can experiment with. They can reduce staffing costs, for example, by having staff teach and act as administrator so we see a lot of educators starting micro schools and because they're small settings, they may be able to do it on their own for a while or just hire one other person to serve students in that very small setting. One of the distinctives of micro schools are the significant variable costs associated with it so it can be very affordable for people to engage in, it's something that's been attractive, certainly in Mississippi for teachers to go out and start on their own when they're ready to serve students better and they want to try out a concept, that maybe has been in the back of their minds for a while and so we talked to a lot of teachers who said during COVID. Okay, I'm ready to go out and try something on my own with a small group of students that and build that organically.

For micro schools, there are lots of different characteristics that can define them, but I would say the unifying ones are that they are intentionally, small, settings that have a number of variable costs and combined typically online and in person instruction. They are known as modern one room schoolhouses very often because they also include multi age instruction and blended instruction, so there are lots of different ways people are experimenting with micro schools but those are the ones that we tend to work with, I also would say that they offer a full time work or academic option in addition very often, to a part time or a la carte options for students as well so it's very flexible in that way too.

Grant Callen: So I was in Pontotoc a couple weeks ago, and got to visit with Donna Akers and hear all about the Ivy Green Academy up there, so this is one example of a really cool micro school that has taken off a couple years ago. Can you share a little bit about that school and just some of the other models you're seeing take the form of micro schools that are happening right here in Mississippi?

Elyse Marcellino: Yeah, Donna's school is a great example, Donna was one of the first micro schools that we connected with, she opened in 2020, which was an interesting year to start. She is part of a national network, so unique in that way, so they are part of the Acton Academy network, which means that they adapt to their specific environment in the ways that they want to, but they get to utilize this curriculum and model that is student led, so students take on a lot of the decision making in the school, and there are they put an emphasis on communication internships, really helping students take hold of what they want to become the future. We see across the state people taking different approaches, so there are faith based micro schools that have started, there are those that have an outdoor or nature focus. There are those that are serving students with special needs in a very specific population with specific supports. There are those that are experimenting with the school day and school week so operating on more of a hybrid schedule to meet their community's needs and students needs so you have people experimenting in a number of different areas, we usually say there are 3 types of micro schools those like Donna's that are part of a network, they have a model that they in general adhere to around a specific educational philosophy. There are those that are partnership micro schools, so maybe they have a significant partner, an employer, or a municipality, where they donate facilities or services. And then we have most often independent micro schools, so single site micro schools typically with a leader and maybe 1 other staff person. There's someone who's now, I think she has 10 students and has growing enrollment, she renovated her garage in her home and she had previously taught in traditional public schools and Charter Schools and thought, I'm ready to go out on my own, I think I have an idea that could serve students in my community really well. And so she's growing at a really great pace. And opened out of her home with a pilot program and is growing from there so, you see people doing all sorts of creative things on the micro schooling front, just trying to serve students in their community as well.

Grant Callen: So during COVID. Mississippi saw the largest exodus of students from traditional public school of any state in the nation, as so 6 percent of Mississippi students left public school and didn't come back. So one of the reasons I think this effort you're leading is so important is because so many of these kids and families really are trying to figure out what is next for them? What is going to be a long term fit? So Obviously, Empower's worked on Charter School work for a long time. We are now at 10 Charter Schools across the state. Maybe talk about the barriers that school founders face. My sense is there are very different barriers. If you're wanting to start a Charter School, you face certain barriers that make it challenging to start up. And if you want to start a micro school, those are different barriers. Could you touch on some of those?

Elyse Marcellino: So they are very different barriers, I'll start with the Charter School side. So for Charter Schools, really some of the 1st barriers to entrepreneurs being able to open and try out an idea are legislative and regulatory. As I said in Mississippi you can only open in certain areas of the state, so immediately that knocks out certain areas of the state that might really be in need of education options. Beyond that, you have to go through a lengthy application process so Embark is obviously focused on helping people get over those hurdles in that process, so we help people understand the law, where they can open, what the process is like, what is necessary in order to be successful and we provide supports along the way to promising efforts. So we tell people it can take anywhere from two and a half to three years to go from idea to doors open if you're wanting to start a Charter School. And while Charter Schools have a unique opportunity as public schools of choice, they have independent boards, they are free from some traditional public school regulations. There are still significant regulations that those schools need to be aware of as they receive public funding. If someone wants to start a Charter School, there is a sort of reality check that we do with them to help them consider whether this is the right school type for them, and it's going to meet the particular needs of the community that they're desiring to serve. It does take quite a bit of work, on the micro schooling side. I would say there is a much shorter runway to opening potentially so we tell people that can take anywhere from 2 to 12 months, and along the way, first of all, you can open anywhere in the state if you are opening as a private setting. So immediately there aren't barriers there we have as I said before, a very unregulated private education sector in Mississippi, which we're thankful for so, there are plenty of things that you would have to deal with on the Charter School side of things that you would not deal with on the micro schooling side. That said entrepreneurs, trying to open micro schools, we've seen this across the nation and that's been reflected in Mississippi, in surveys, the barriers to opening exists more on the entrepreneurial side when it comes to really understanding, legally and from a business perspective, how to set up, how to structure yourself, how to ensure that you're opening applicable, how to think about facilities and local regulations that might apply in those cases, depending on how you structure yourself. So we've seen an opportunity there to come alongside and clarify those things for micro schools in Mississippi. I would also say but because we see a lot of folks coming out of traditional public settings and ready to open micro schools, there is that passion there, but there is a sort of regulatory detox that they have to go through to be able to see that they can experiment in a lot of different areas in this new space. That's a detox that we can help them with and thinking through all of the different areas where they can explore flexibility. In the way that they structure and deliver an education. And so that's an exciting part of what we do, that is something that we talk a lot about with the Micro School Founders, but it is something that we have seen pretty consistently in those coming out of a very regulated setting that they need that networking and mentorship and opportunity to think through levers for flexibility in the micro schooling space, once they make that decision to step out and begin a setting on their own.

Grant Callen: And it's worth noting. And this may go without saying, but I think sometimes people think, somebody in Jackson is deciding where to put these schools and there it's all a top down, very intentional approach, and it's just not on either side, both charters and micro schools this is very much an organic bottom up movement where ordinary Mississippians. A lot of times it's parents or former public school educators or entrepreneurial kind of minded people, are seeing a problem in their community, often it's a problem in their home because their kids, are not thriving in the educational setting they're at. And they step out and say, let's start something that is not only meeting the needs of my Children, but could also meet the needs of other kids in the community. So as you're talking to these school founders, how are you seeing them wrestle with the different business model? And obviously the charter business model, the revenue model, the funding is very different than micro schools.

Elyse Marcellino: Yeah so that is a big consideration on the micro schooling side, I would say both in both sectors, school founders have to consider how to be creative with costs and their unique opportunities to do that both with Charter Schools and micro schools. For micro schools, obviously, then you get into the tuition conversation, how to keep things affordable, what sorts of sources of revenue are out there in addition to charting tuition, or how to make that very affordable for people so, I mentioned the variable costs earlier. One thing that we really encourage Micro School Founders to do is really experiment with those variable costs in order to get to a very affordable place for the students in their community and to consider through serving your community, what people are willing to pay, which really varies when it comes to communities across Mississippi, some of them experiment, as I said, with school days, school week, staffing facilities, all of these things that can really significantly reduce costs and many of them open with 1 staff person who is teaching and doing whatever administrative work there needs to be done, so these education entrepreneurs have a unique opportunity, they don't have large staffs, a lot of overhead and so it can be very affordable as they learn to organically grow and figure out how to deal with those variable costs as they grow. We also see micro schools that are able to utilize state scholarships where tax dollars can follow students to the setting of their choice in Mississippi, we have an ESA program for students with special needs that some micro schools depending on how they're set up have been able to utilize for their students. And then there are also micro schools that have partnered with employers in the community to sponsor students, there are a lot of creative ways that people have looked at the students in their communities who want to come and have tried to adapt their models to ensure that those students can come and it's an affordable situation. I think, the main thing is that we see a lot of founders really trying to be creative in those areas, and we want to help them think through ways to do that as potentially there are more opportunities for students to be able to take their education tax dollars with them to these settings in addition to others.

Grant Callen: Although it seems like in Mississippi, both of our private school choice programs are very small. You largely have to walk these founders through the tradeoffs of a micro school today in Mississippi is largely going to be tuition funded, so parents are gonna have to pay, but it's largely are much less regulated than the Charter School, whereas a Charter School is free for parents because moneys follow the child, and they get public funding, but the exchange for that is a much more regulated process. So what do you see as the characteristics of successful school founders, maybe on either side, the charter or the micro school side?

Elyse Marcellino: Yeah and what you just said is one reason we start with early stage conversations as well, we don't split people into one of these groups early on, but we just have conversations about what they want to do for students and help them make a decision about what school type makes sense and works best and is possible based on laws and regulations in their communities. As far as characteristics go, I would say something that I commonly see in founders in education entrepreneurs is really a boldness to do something different, and really a tenacity in order to continue going no matter what hurdles you hit. I also think a deep frustration with the status quo is something that I commonly see, with education entrepreneurs, they have typically been, as you said, frustrated by something in their own home or by something they've seen in their classrooms, and they've been mulling this over for a little while, and then they're ready to go out and do something different based on the problems that they see and the desire that they have to solve them and to offer a better education to students. And I think all of those are necessary. That tenacity, that boldness and that frustration is what I have seen drive founders to go all the way from having that idea to actually opening their doors.

Grant Callen: One really fascinating aspect of this that I had not anticipated that you've shared with me is that you've seen like over half of the micro schools founders that have started up in the last couple of years have been African American moms. Why do you think that community is so interested in creating new options?

Elyse Marcellino: For all of those moms, it has been the frustration with what their own children have been going through in traditional classrooms. And that has been inspiration for them. Then talking to others in the community and figuring out that other people were dissatisfied with what they were receiving as well. And it was a snowball effect to get them to the point where they looked for and Embarked to help them take those next steps, or they started taking those next steps on their own and found us along the way. I think those characteristics that frustration is really what seems to drive those moms to desire a lot of them in rural areas, to desire to do something different in their communities on behalf their own children first, but then on behalf of other children in the community as well.

Grant Callen: I love that. So where do you see this going? What do you think the Mississippi school landscape is going to look like in the next 10, 15, 20 years?

Elyse Marcellino: I would like for it to be a landscape that is one oriented to education options and not assignment, a landscape in which parents expect to have to make choices in education for their students and they are prepared and being prepared, my groups, I'm interested in giving, in helping them make those decisions, the information that they need to make informed choices when it comes to education. I think that's a huge mindset shift to go from, this is where my student has been assigned to, oh, I have this many options, I need to explore whether there are more and then I need to assess each of them and decide which 1 works best. And it's this ongoing conversation that I think parents and communities need to have, and I would like to see that opportunity to continue to grow and that would be a significant shift in the landscape from what it's been traditionally in America thus far to go from a landscape oriented assignment or to options instead of assignment.

Grant Callen: And I think the school choice movement has for so long focused on the demand side, let's make sure parents have a scholarship or a voucher or an ESA or some way so that money follows the child. And, one of the criticisms of the school choice movement that I think has a lot of validity, is when folks say, Yeah, but in a lot of communities just giving a kid a scholarship to attend another school, even with a scholarship, there are no great schools in my community. So I think the work you're doing is so incredibly important, because you're actually giving Mississippian the tools that find themselves in those situations to start a school. So I guess my final question for you is, if someone's listening to this and they think this is sorely needed in my community, but I'm no professional educator, what would you say to somebody listening who needs a little bit encouragement or wants to get involved and could be a great school founder?

Elyse Marcellino: So Embark exists to be that thought partner and support to education entrepreneurs so that they do not feel alone in this landscape as they consider what they want to try in the education space to serve students better, so please come and visit us at www. Embark. ms. We try to do an introductory call with anyone that comes to us and says they're interested in starting a school. We have a get started form on our website where you can tell us what you're thinking about and what steps you might have already taken. We offer a lot of introductory events, and then as we develop relationships with you there are opportunities for more deeper dive events, we make introductory resources available on our website but then similarly, you can gain access to more deeper dive resources as you continue to engage with us and we get to know you better can better help direct you to the resources that makes sense. We want to connect you, to the right partners, we want to be a thought partner, help you think through your idea, understand the landscape better and then we have opportunities for promising school efforts where we actually offer you some prelaunch funding in that process to help you move more quickly, to being able to serve students on the Charter School side, we have an application your fellowship. When we have an application open in the spring and that application your fellowship begins in the fall. You can go to our website to learn more about that for micro schools, it's a really a rolling admissions process since there isn't an application to open a micro school. We have that application open throughout the year and you can apply to be part of our momentum micro grants program where you can access up to 2, 500 dollars in pre launch funding paired with coaching along the way to help you if you are within 12 months of planning to launch.

Our goal is to hit these various pain points for education entrepreneurs where they need support, maybe some prelaunch funding they need someone who understands the landscape and can connect them to the right resources and partners, and our goal is to know the entire landscape of potential school founders in Mississippi so that we can help provide better and better networking and mentorship and training opportunities. So please contact us if you are interested in potentially starting a school in Mississippi, we're happy to have those early stage conversations, even if it's just an idea right now.

Grant Callen: Embark. ms. We'll put that web address in the show notes. I should have mentioned this at the top of the show, you're a nonprofit, so you don't charge for any of this, all of this is a service to potential school founders so that you can execute your mission, of helping school founders open great schools. Thank you for the work you're doing. I can't wait to see what the next five and 10 years of this work in Mississippi look like. So many kids lives are being changed and are going to be changed. Thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for joining us on the show.

Elyse Marcellino: Thanks for having me.

Grant Callen: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode of the Empower Podcast to learn more about how you can get involved and we can work together to make Mississippi a place where everyone can rise. Go to our website at Empower.ms.org. Please or subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you'll be notified of future episodes.